Aug. 28, 2025
What Made Rob Westman Kill Part 2
Esteemed psychiatrist Dr. Carol Lieberman joins us to discuss the Minneapolis shooting involving 23 year old Rob Westman.
How does transgenderism treatment play a role, and what other influences may have turned Westman into a cold-blooded killer who was driven to shoot up to 17 innocent children at a Catholic School?
It's about asking the right questions to get the answer we need to deal with this disturbing trend.
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But we've had Doctor Carol
Lieberman on before, frequently.
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In fact, she's one of our
favorites here on America Today.
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Jim Watkins.
Doctor Carol Lieberman is a
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certified psychiatrist.
And we've talked a lot about
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various cultural things that
have happened and some of the
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psychiatry about males adjusting
in the world today.
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And of course, the tragedy
yesterday in Minnesota is Rob
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Westerman taking out two young
children, 17 children injured at
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a Catholic school right in the
middle of the session.
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And of course, everybody's
upset.
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We find out that he's
transgender, but we're supposed
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to pretend that that has nothing
to do with it.
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We find out that he's
interacting with artificial
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intelligence, which is, it
occurred to me this morning,
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Doctor Carroll, that you know
what AI is, is it's a giant
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affirmation tool because we've
heard about this before.
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So without me going on, give me
your impressions of what you
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extrapolate from what you
witnessed yesterday.
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Tell us what you think about
this shooter.
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Well, the clearest statement is
that he was filled with hate for
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others themselves, for
Catholics, for Jews, for Trump,
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you know, just filled with hate
and and of course himself.
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Well, and it's interesting.
He apparently was, he wrote in
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his, you know, or he said in his
video, he what he left behind,
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that he wanted to detransition
that really he was tired of that
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he was a mistake for him to have
changed to become a, a woman.
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I mean, I don't know how much he
changed.
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That really hasn't come out yet.
We know he grew his hair longer,
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but I don't know whether he's
had hormones or any surgery
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doesn't so far there's no
reports of that.
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But but you know, he is he's
combination of things.
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He school shooters in general.
I've been talking about school
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shooters since since Columbine.
And typically there's a there's
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a similar background and that is
at home.
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There's a very dysfunctional
home.
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They're abused or neglected,
typically divorced as his
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parents.
Were they violent, obsessed with
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violent video games.
Also, you know, he apparently
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really spent a lot of time being
obsessed with other schools
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shooters.
I mean, he seemed to he knew
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even not not this like not
Columbine necessarily, but like
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more, more ones that are that
were less well known.
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And so it's a combination.
I mean, clearly, you know, I
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don't know that he was abused,
although by his parents.
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I'm typically, as I said,
they're abused or neglected.
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We don't know that he was abused
by his parents.
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He was certainly neglected
because they allowed him to.
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I mean, it is amazing.
They're they've been searching
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three homes related to him.
And I think that his parents are
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divorced.
So his mother's house, his
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father's house and some other
house.
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And they've been finding guns in
all of them.
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Now, I certainly am not going
to, I don't blame the guns, you
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know, and of course, that's what
this was an, an other
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opportunity for people to come
out and say, oh, look, it's the
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guns.
If we should just, you know,
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restrict the guns.
So I'm not saying that, but I am
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saying that.
How is it that his parents
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didn't think that there was
something wrong with this huge
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collection of guns?
He brought 3 to the church that
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he used in, in the killings And
and, you know, he was a very
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troubled boy from the time.
And he said he's been planning
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this for years and, and he's
obviously been very troubled.
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I think that's why they sent him
to a like a cadet school, you
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know, sort of a military school.
Perhaps he was abused by someone
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there.
I don't know that for a fact,
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but typically people who become
trans, that's one of the things
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that they, they're often,
they've often been sexually
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abused by somebody.
But, and he was, of course, he's
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been infected by Trump
Derangement Syndrome.
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I mean, it's a whole mixture of
things that and, and the
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overriding thing is just the
hatred.
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He hated other people.
He hated himself.
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And then he thought he had
cancer because he was vaping a
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lot.
And so he wanted to kill himself
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before, you know, this, I guess,
before he died of cancer.
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And he wanted to, he wanted to
go down in history, wanted to
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represent something like for his
life, he wanted, he wanted to be
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famous.
I mean, that's the unfortunate
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problem for a lot of these
school shooters these days.
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They want to be famous.
They want to.
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They want everybody to know who
they are.
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Well, they're crying out.
Look at me.
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Look at me.
I matter, right?
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Well, in your experience, Doctor
Lieberman, and by the way, she's
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ridden lions and tigers and
terrorists.
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Oh my, back in 2017, I believe
it was.
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But it's out there and it's a
great insight.
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And it's, it's yes, it's
becoming more and more relevant
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as America is more and more
vulnerable to terrorists taking
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over and, and putting us under
Sharia law.
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So.
All right, so let's talk about
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the transgender aspect because
nobody else wants to get near
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it.
And I really don't have a
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problem with it and I don't care
what adults decide if they.
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But when it comes to young
children, and we know that the
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the human brain doesn't really
kind of stop developing until
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like the mid 20s and
particularly for young men.
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You obviously know more than me.
But if you get into a position
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when you've got already have a
lot of help, self hate and you
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don't like you for whatever
reason, whatever contributed to
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that.
And then it becomes AI think
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almost a like a psychosis that
transgenderism becomes an off
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ramp.
It becomes a way for you to
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receive validation that you are
in fact not who you were born to
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be.
And that and then here comes the
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retinue of chemicals.
So from your experience from the
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time, and I think he was what 16
some if or no 23.
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Once you make that decision and
you go to the doctors and you
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say, I think I want to
transition to a woman.
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How soon do they start giving
you estrogen promoters and the
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the blockers for testosterone?
How soon does that start to
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happen?
Once the therapy begins and you
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you decide that you want to
transition?
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Well, it depends, you know.
I mean some parents are bringing
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their kids in when they're 3 and
4.
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But generally speaking, it
happens fairly quickly, right?
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I mean.
I think what you're referring to
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is the fact that these days you
don't have to wait very long,
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you know, really to make the
diagnosis of, of gender
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dysphoria.
It's supposed to be 6 months at
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least where the person has these
feelings.
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And the, the, when they go to
see a psychiatrist or a General
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practitioner, you know, for half
an hour.
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And the person, there's no way,
first of all, that they can
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really get to the bottom of it
to understand what's really
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going on with the child, whether
it really is gender dysphoria or
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whether it's, you know, that
they're upset that their parents
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are getting divorced or their
best friend, you know, doesn't
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want to be friends with them
anymore.
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It could be lots of things.
And the problem is that there
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isn't enough time spent with
these kids to determine what the
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real story is.
And that's for a lot of reasons.
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One, because sometimes parents
want them to be the opposite
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sex.
And and then, of course, the the
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money making potential for these
doctors, you know, is, is
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tremendous.
Yeah.
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So they don't really care how
how serious the person is, how
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how authentic they are for this
this dysphoria.
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Just as a for example, Spiro
spironolactone is the most
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common testosterone blocker
prescribed in the US.
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What are the side effects of
this drug?
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Well, all the hormones, you
know, besides, well, well, it's
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more typically when a woman,
when a someone born a girl wants
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to become a man, then they give
them steroids.
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And, and so the part the how
that contributes in addition to
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all the other things is that it
makes, you know, steroids.
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We know when, when guys take
steroids to build muscles,
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there's roid rage, you know, but
I don't know that.
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First of all, we haven't, I
haven't been able to find out
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whether he has been taking any
hormones or did do any of that,
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had any surgeries.
I mean, I haven't seen that come
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out yet, but.
Well, we're not going to see it
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come out because they don't want
to have that conversation.
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That's what I'm trying to get to
Doctor Carroll.
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Nobody wants to have the real
conversation, which is we're
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seeing, we're seeing a real
trend.
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And if it's drug related, we
need to know.
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But big pharma doesn't want
people to know that it's drug
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related because that would mean
it would be under the and this
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is the, the, the criminality of
this.
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And it's the same, by the way,
with for female, you know,
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testosterone boosters.
We're starting to see a pattern
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here, but nobody wants to call
it out because there's so much
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money involved.
And that's my whole well.
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Yes, OK, yes, that's definitely
part of it.
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But but really, you know, it's,
it's more the fault of the
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parents, you know, for not for,
for bringing them so quickly to
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get these things and, and not
recognizing the signs he had
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signs before he he transitioned,
whatever he did to transition.
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I mean, yes, these things are
incredibly dangerous.
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And the lesson that we, we have
to learn and unfortunately,
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we're out of time here, but
this, this is all new territory
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for all of us.
And if we don't start asking the
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right questions, we're not going
to get the right answers.
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And that's my premise.
Yes, yes.
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It's, you know, The thing is
though, it's a combination of
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all of the things that we've
been talking about that we're
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brewing in this young man's
mind, as is brewing in lots of
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other kids mind and especially
in this society where there's no
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consequences.
Doctor Lieberman, it's always a
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pleasure.
I look forward to our next get
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together.
Be sure to get her book.
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It's a great read and it'll give
you a lot of insight.
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We love what you do here and we
thank you very much.
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Doctor Carol Lieberman joining
us on America TODAY.
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But we've had Doctor Carol
Lieberman on before, frequently.
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In fact, she's one of our
favorites here on America Today.
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00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:17,540
Jim Watkins.
Doctor Carol Lieberman is a
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00:00:17,580 --> 00:00:20,420
certified psychiatrist.
And we've talked a lot about
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00:00:20,820 --> 00:00:23,940
various cultural things that
have happened and some of the
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00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:27,960
psychiatry about males adjusting
in the world today.
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00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,200
And of course, the tragedy
yesterday in Minnesota is Rob
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Westerman taking out two young
children, 17 children injured at
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a Catholic school right in the
middle of the session.
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And of course, everybody's
upset.
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We find out that he's
transgender, but we're supposed
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to pretend that that has nothing
to do with it.
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We find out that he's
interacting with artificial
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intelligence, which is, it
occurred to me this morning,
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Doctor Carroll, that you know
what AI is, is it's a giant
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affirmation tool because we've
heard about this before.
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So without me going on, give me
your impressions of what you
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extrapolate from what you
witnessed yesterday.
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Tell us what you think about
this shooter.
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Well, the clearest statement is
that he was filled with hate for
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others themselves, for
Catholics, for Jews, for Trump,
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you know, just filled with hate
and and of course himself.
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Well, and it's interesting.
He apparently was, he wrote in
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his, you know, or he said in his
video, he what he left behind,
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that he wanted to detransition
that really he was tired of that
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he was a mistake for him to have
changed to become a, a woman.
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I mean, I don't know how much he
changed.
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That really hasn't come out yet.
We know he grew his hair longer,
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but I don't know whether he's
had hormones or any surgery
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doesn't so far there's no
reports of that.
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But but you know, he is he's
combination of things.
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He school shooters in general.
I've been talking about school
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shooters since since Columbine.
And typically there's a there's
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a similar background and that is
at home.
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There's a very dysfunctional
home.
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They're abused or neglected,
typically divorced as his
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parents.
Were they violent, obsessed with
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violent video games.
Also, you know, he apparently
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really spent a lot of time being
obsessed with other schools
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00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,640
shooters.
I mean, he seemed to he knew
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00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:29,760
even not not this like not
Columbine necessarily, but like
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more, more ones that are that
were less well known.
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And so it's a combination.
I mean, clearly, you know, I
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don't know that he was abused,
although by his parents.
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00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,520
I'm typically, as I said,
they're abused or neglected.
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00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,280
We don't know that he was abused
by his parents.
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00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,440
He was certainly neglected
because they allowed him to.
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00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,920
I mean, it is amazing.
They're they've been searching
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three homes related to him.
And I think that his parents are
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divorced.
So his mother's house, his
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father's house and some other
house.
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And they've been finding guns in
all of them.
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Now, I certainly am not going
to, I don't blame the guns, you
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know, and of course, that's what
this was an, an other
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opportunity for people to come
out and say, oh, look, it's the
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guns.
If we should just, you know,
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restrict the guns.
So I'm not saying that, but I am
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saying that.
How is it that his parents
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didn't think that there was
something wrong with this huge
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collection of guns?
He brought 3 to the church that
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he used in, in the killings And
and, you know, he was a very
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troubled boy from the time.
And he said he's been planning
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this for years and, and he's
obviously been very troubled.
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I think that's why they sent him
to a like a cadet school, you
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know, sort of a military school.
Perhaps he was abused by someone
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there.
I don't know that for a fact,
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but typically people who become
trans, that's one of the things
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that they, they're often,
they've often been sexually
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abused by somebody.
But, and he was, of course, he's
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been infected by Trump
Derangement Syndrome.
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I mean, it's a whole mixture of
things that and, and the
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overriding thing is just the
hatred.
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He hated other people.
He hated himself.
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And then he thought he had
cancer because he was vaping a
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lot.
And so he wanted to kill himself
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before, you know, this, I guess,
before he died of cancer.
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And he wanted to, he wanted to
go down in history, wanted to
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represent something like for his
life, he wanted, he wanted to be
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famous.
I mean, that's the unfortunate
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00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,560
problem for a lot of these
school shooters these days.
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They want to be famous.
They want to.
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They want everybody to know who
they are.
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Well, they're crying out.
Look at me.
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Look at me.
I matter, right?
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Well, in your experience, Doctor
Lieberman, and by the way, she's
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ridden lions and tigers and
terrorists.
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Oh my, back in 2017, I believe
it was.
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But it's out there and it's a
great insight.
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00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,400
And it's, it's yes, it's
becoming more and more relevant
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as America is more and more
vulnerable to terrorists taking
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over and, and putting us under
Sharia law.
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So.
All right, so let's talk about
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the transgender aspect because
nobody else wants to get near
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it.
And I really don't have a
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00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,160
problem with it and I don't care
what adults decide if they.
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00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,400
But when it comes to young
children, and we know that the
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00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,080
the human brain doesn't really
kind of stop developing until
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00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,800
like the mid 20s and
particularly for young men.
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00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,440
You obviously know more than me.
But if you get into a position
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when you've got already have a
lot of help, self hate and you
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don't like you for whatever
reason, whatever contributed to
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that.
And then it becomes AI think
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00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,440
almost a like a psychosis that
transgenderism becomes an off
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00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,720
ramp.
It becomes a way for you to
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receive validation that you are
in fact not who you were born to
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be.
And that and then here comes the
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retinue of chemicals.
So from your experience from the
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time, and I think he was what 16
some if or no 23.
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Once you make that decision and
you go to the doctors and you
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say, I think I want to
transition to a woman.
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00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,880
How soon do they start giving
you estrogen promoters and the
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00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,880
the blockers for testosterone?
How soon does that start to
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00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,520
happen?
Once the therapy begins and you
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you decide that you want to
transition?
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00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,360
Well, it depends, you know.
I mean some parents are bringing
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00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,400
their kids in when they're 3 and
4.
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00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,040
But generally speaking, it
happens fairly quickly, right?
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00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,440
I mean.
I think what you're referring to
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is the fact that these days you
don't have to wait very long,
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00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,520
you know, really to make the
diagnosis of, of gender
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00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,360
dysphoria.
It's supposed to be 6 months at
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00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,840
least where the person has these
feelings.
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00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,560
And the, the, when they go to
see a psychiatrist or a General
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00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,320
practitioner, you know, for half
an hour.
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00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,640
And the person, there's no way,
first of all, that they can
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00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,200
really get to the bottom of it
to understand what's really
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going on with the child, whether
it really is gender dysphoria or
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00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,120
whether it's, you know, that
they're upset that their parents
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00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,160
are getting divorced or their
best friend, you know, doesn't
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00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,440
want to be friends with them
anymore.
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00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,880
It could be lots of things.
And the problem is that there
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00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,280
isn't enough time spent with
these kids to determine what the
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real story is.
And that's for a lot of reasons.
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One, because sometimes parents
want them to be the opposite
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sex.
And and then, of course, the the
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money making potential for these
doctors, you know, is, is
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00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,280
tremendous.
Yeah.
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00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,560
So they don't really care how
how serious the person is, how
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how authentic they are for this
this dysphoria.
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00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,480
Just as a for example, Spiro
spironolactone is the most
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00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,640
common testosterone blocker
prescribed in the US.
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00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,480
What are the side effects of
this drug?
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00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,320
Well, all the hormones, you
know, besides, well, well, it's
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00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,800
more typically when a woman,
when a someone born a girl wants
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to become a man, then they give
them steroids.
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00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,440
And, and so the part the how
that contributes in addition to
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00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,800
all the other things is that it
makes, you know, steroids.
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We know when, when guys take
steroids to build muscles,
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00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,080
there's roid rage, you know, but
I don't know that.
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00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,840
First of all, we haven't, I
haven't been able to find out
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00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,520
whether he has been taking any
hormones or did do any of that,
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00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,520
had any surgeries.
I mean, I haven't seen that come
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00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,120
out yet, but.
Well, we're not going to see it
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00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,080
come out because they don't want
to have that conversation.
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00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,040
That's what I'm trying to get to
Doctor Carroll.
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00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,880
Nobody wants to have the real
conversation, which is we're
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00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,720
seeing, we're seeing a real
trend.
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00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,800
And if it's drug related, we
need to know.
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00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,240
But big pharma doesn't want
people to know that it's drug
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00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,880
related because that would mean
it would be under the and this
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00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:37,640
is the, the, the criminality of
this.
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00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:42,400
And it's the same, by the way,
with for female, you know,
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00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,520
testosterone boosters.
We're starting to see a pattern
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00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,120
here, but nobody wants to call
it out because there's so much
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00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,280
money involved.
And that's my whole well.
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00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,600
Yes, OK, yes, that's definitely
part of it.
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00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,160
But but really, you know, it's,
it's more the fault of the
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00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,800
parents, you know, for not for,
for bringing them so quickly to
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00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,960
get these things and, and not
recognizing the signs he had
170
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,760
signs before he he transitioned,
whatever he did to transition.
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00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,040
I mean, yes, these things are
incredibly dangerous.
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00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,520
And the lesson that we, we have
to learn and unfortunately,
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00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,800
we're out of time here, but
this, this is all new territory
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00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,440
for all of us.
And if we don't start asking the
175
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,640
right questions, we're not going
to get the right answers.
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00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,200
And that's my premise.
Yes, yes.
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00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,680
It's, you know, The thing is
though, it's a combination of
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00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,600
all of the things that we've
been talking about that we're
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00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,720
brewing in this young man's
mind, as is brewing in lots of
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00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,560
other kids mind and especially
in this society where there's no
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00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,880
consequences.
Doctor Lieberman, it's always a
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00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,320
pleasure.
I look forward to our next get
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00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,480
together.
Be sure to get her book.
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00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,160
It's a great read and it'll give
you a lot of insight.
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00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,520
We love what you do here and we
thank you very much.
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Doctor Carol Lieberman joining
us on America TODAY.
