July 7, 2025
From Trauma to Joy - Mike McNamara
Former Marine, author of From Trauma to Joy, and podcast host Michael F. McNamara shares his insights on how to deal with trauma, detailing his own experiences, as well as those of others who have also dealt with extremely tragic experiences.
How to prpcess, what drives motivations, and how does a person process trauma in life? McNamara's transformative experience is a gift. Take a listen.
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Welcome back.
It is America today, Jim
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Watkins, and I'm honored to have
on a gentleman who's going to
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tell us a little bit about grief
and how to deal with it.
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His name is Michael McNamara and
he is the author of a gripping
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book called From Trauma to Joy.
Life Changing Lessons that
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fellow U.S.
Marines taught me after
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traumatic events occurred in my
life, lessons that apply to
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everyone.
Also, the author of an upcoming
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children's grief and trauma help
book, Colleen, I can't forget.
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So we're introducing you to our
audience.
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Tell us about the trauma in your
life.
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And then we also want to, of
course, talk about the trauma
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that we've all been witness to
over this weekend in Texas and
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how we can process all of this.
Welcome to the program, Mr.
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McNamara.
Tell us your story.
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Well, first of all, thank you
for having me.
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And my story is my parents
separate divorce when I'm about
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20.
They never speak again.
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So they annihilate the family
that I grew up in, the beautiful
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little family I grew up in.
I joined the Marine Corps, and
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in 1983 and 1993, I'm in charge
of a exercise that I put
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together and out in the desert
of 49 Palms, the helicopter
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crashes near me.
The pilot was decapitated. 3 of
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the Marines were fighting for
their lives on the ground.
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We tried to save them all and
every one of them died.
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And I learned a really important
lesson out of that, that one of
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my Marines taught me.
And that was he came up to me as
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I was washing blood off my hands
and he asked me.
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He said, hey, Sir, he said, how
are you doing?
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I said, I don't know, I've been
kind of busy and as we all have.
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And I said, I haven't really
thought about that.
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And he looked at me and he said,
you know, you're never going to
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get over this, right.
And I looked at him and I can't
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tell you exactly what I said
because it'd be an inappropriate
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for the airwaves, but I said,
I'm pretty sure the therapist
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doesn't say that to the patient.
Now, why don't you get away from
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me?
And you looked at me and said,
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no, Sir, you need to know that.
I said, who told you that?
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And he told me Vietnam Marines
have told him that.
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He said, you know, I went
through something not nearly as
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bad as what happened today.
And that's always helped me.
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And and the complete thought was
really important in my life.
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One, you don't get over the
things that traumatize you ever.
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The best you can do is learn how
to coexist with them.
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You know, how could you, right?
How could you?
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The next part of that is when
you struggle, that means you're
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a normal human being and you
could still live a great life.
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OK.
But we have to learn what are
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the things I do when these
things come back?
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And they will.
And so.
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So I learned that from that
incident.
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Three years later, my sister's
husband murders her kids after
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she says she wants a divorce and
she's leaving.
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He beats her and then kills
himself.
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I go to Iraq and Afghanistan for
three years.
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I'm a Marine Corps.
I was a former Marine infantry
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officer before I retired, so all
during the heights of the
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fighting.
So I've seen ugly things.
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But the ugliest thing I've ever
seen didn't happen in Iraq or
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Afghanistan.
It happened in my hometown of
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Sacramento, CA to my sister and
my nephew.
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I came home from Afghanistan, I
got divorced something I never
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thought would happen to me and
then one of my 2 younger sisters
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reasons to death that was as a
result of alcohol poisoning in
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cold weather.
So I could not get away from
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this stuff.
It just kept happening in my
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life.
And I started doing a podcast
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and I would called all Marine
radio.
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So I talked to Marines and I
wanted to talk about because we
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had this horrible suicide
problem and it still impacts the
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deal, the Department of Defense
and the military today.
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And our combat operations were
going down.
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Our suicide was going up and
none of us understood it.
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And so I would ask the people I
interviewed every on all Marine
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radio, we talked to Marine,
right?
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So I would ask them, you know
what, what happened when you
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came home 2/3 of the way through
every interview.
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And the stories they told me
were a variation of the same
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thing.
This stuff started when I was a
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kid.
I joined the Marine Corps to get
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to a better place and get away
from a bad place.
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So it started when I was a kid.
It continued in my life.
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And you know, then I got
divorced, so I started drinking.
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I never talked about it, right?
And you know, three times had a
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gun in front of me once it was
in my mouth.
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And I heard that story over and
over again.
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So I began, I thought, you know
what?
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I didn't know any of this stuff.
I need to take the stuff I've
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learned that I've heard over and
over again, and I need to teach
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people because I didn't know any
of this stuff, right?
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Nobody taught me this stuff.
And I know how much it's helped
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me.
So I started doing that in 2019.
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And the experiences I had, I
will tell you, if I sat here and
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started telling you those
experiences, we could be here
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all day and they would blow you
away.
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So I've learned this, this path
from trauma to joy.
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And to any of your listeners, I
don't care what your experience
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is, if it's child abuse, if it's
child sexual abuse, if it's
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watching people you love die,
right?
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Or you know, and I mean the
horrible events of this weekend
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in Texas, right?
I want to tell you there is a
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path for you.
You can walk it.
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It doesn't involve being on
medications for life and going
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to therapy, to life for life.
And it's and it's all anchored
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in the truth.
I don't sell opium.
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I'm not going to tell you time
heals all wounds because it
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doesn't.
I'm not going to tell you
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there's a purpose in this
because there isn't.
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You may give it a purpose, but
in and of itself it doesn't have
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a purpose.
And I'm not going to tell you
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that God doesn't give you more
than you can handle.
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Because when I hear that, I look
at the person who says it and
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say, how would you know?
Were you in the planning meeting
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with God, divvied up trauma and
said, let's give more to
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McNamara because he can handle
it.
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And they just look at me.
I said, don't say that, OK?
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And I know you say it because
you don't know what to say to
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people like me.
Don't say that.
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Just give them a hug and say I'm
here for you.
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So that has been my path to,
into, into what I call the
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valley of the shadow of death.
And that's what generated my
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book from trauma to joy.
The the children's book that I
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wrote was generated because I
had to tell my sons, who are 9
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and six, that their cousins were
murdered and by their uncle.
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And I had to tell them that
because normally you would
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shield your kids right from
things like that.
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Well, my father was involved in
Major League Baseball, so that
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story went out on ESPN and all
their friends were going to
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know.
And so as their father, they had
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to hear the truth and they had
to hear they should hear it from
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me.
And so the book is an effort to
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help parents who, like me, could
not shield their kids from some
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traumatic event.
And it takes them down a path
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from on the same path from
trauma to joy.
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But the book's called Colleen
Couldn't Forget.
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It's about a little girl who
sees something while she's
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riding in her car with her
father on the Interstate.
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The book doesn't even say what
she sees because it's not really
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important.
But her father notices, She
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gets, she gets very quiet.
So he says, Colleen, what's
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wrong?
Is there something wrong?
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And she says, well, daddy, you
know the thing we saw?
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And he said, yeah, she said, I
can't forget that.
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And he looks at her and says,
you know, Colleen, there's
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things in my life that I can't
forget either.
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And she says, really?
And he says, Yep, same thing
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with your mom, your brother and
your sister and your grandma and
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grandpa.
And I want you to go speak to
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everyone of them and ask them
what advice they would give you.
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So Colleen goes on this little
journey where they teach her all
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the lessons I teach and from
trauma to joy, but in an age
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appropriate way for children.
The transformational event in
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the first book From Trauma to
Joy and then Colleen Can't
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Forget, is when you see yourself
getting better, you know that
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you're this is a normal human
reaction.
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And So what happens is you feel
yourself becoming stronger
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because you understand this
valley of the shadow of death
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that you've been shoved into.
You learn how to live there.
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You learn most importantly, how
to get out of it and how to stay
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out of it.
And then what happens is you see
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somebody else struggling and you
stick your hand into their
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darkness.
And so Colleen goes on this
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journey when she comes back and
tells her dad how much she's
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learned and how how she knows
there's nothing wrong with her.
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And she knows what to do now,
right?
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Instead of isolating, she'll
come talk.
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Instead of being alone in a
room, she'll go outside and play
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because she knows her body and
her brain need that.
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And so he says, well, I'm not
done with you, though.
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And she says, well, what else do
you want me to do?
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And he says, when your friends
get quiet and you notice that, I
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want you to talk to them and I
want you to help them.
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And so the book ends with
calling and helping a little boy
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down the street whose parents
have recently separated.
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Right.
He's very sad and I'm going.
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To ask you to, to hold that only
because we have a hard break.
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Just take a take a breath
because this is so much and it's
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so important what we're doing
here.
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My guest, Mike McNamara will be
back from trauma to joy.
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You're listening to America
TODAY.
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It's OK.
From trauma to joy, that is the
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name of the book by this man.
His name is Mike McNamara, and
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he has a story to tell and he's
here for the reason of the
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tragedy and the horror that
we've witnessed this weekend.
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There has to be some solace and
this man has the life experience
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that he's sharing with us.
He's written not only one book,
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but 21 called From Trauma to
Joy, which we talked about, and
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also Colleen Can't Forget, which
is a story that we can all
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relate to because let's face it,
among us, how many have not had
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some kind of tragedy?
But this man breaks all the
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records.
And, and I do want to interrupt
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you, but you were talking about
the conversation between the
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little girl and her father.
So please continue on that if
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you wouldn't mind, Mike.
So the book ends with Colleen
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seeing a friend of hers, a
little boy who rides the bus
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with her to school.
He's very quiet and he's sitting
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by himself on the bus.
And so she goes and sits next to
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him and she says, are you OK?
And he says, no.
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I'm really sad.
My my dad left our house and I
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don't know what to do.
Colleen tells him about what
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happened to her.
And she said, I have a notebook
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with a lot of notes in it from
these conversations.
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Would you like to see it?
And he says, yes.
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So they go over to Colleen's
house.
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He copies all the notes, and
they're sitting there and they
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talk.
And he looks at her and he says,
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I feel so much better calling.
Thank you so much.
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And so then he leaves.
Colleen is then the bookends
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with Colleen having dinner with
your family.
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And there's a knock on the door
and the little boy has come back
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and he brought his little
brother with it.
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And everybody stops and Colleen
answers the door.
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And he said, Colleen, could we
go to the park?
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And could you talk to my
brother?
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And Colleen leaves the house.
I'm getting emotional.
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Just tell the story.
She, she leaves the house with
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this huge smile on her face and
she makes eye contact with her
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dad.
And then the three of those
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kids, they head to the park.
And so children go through this,
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right?
I mean, my kids did.
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And as parents, we have to be
able to discuss this stuff to
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tell them, you know, sadly, as
you just said, this is the
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normal part of life, right?
And it's probably not the last
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hard thing you're going to go
through in life.
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So the question is, what do we
do?
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What do we do with this terrible
thing that's happened to us?
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Is all we do is, is endure it?
Is that all we do?
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And there's got to be a better
path than that.
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And that's what the book tries
to outline in terms of, of, of
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what we can do with something
like this and how we can use it
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to help others.
And and I tell people in in the
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in the book from trauma to joy,
I said, you know, if you do
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that, if you stick your hand in,
if you learn how to do this, and
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then you stick your hand starts
into somebody else's darkness
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when life has shoved them into
the valley of the shadow of
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death.
At some point, you're going to
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get a call that sounds something
like this.
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00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,440
Hey, man, I just wanted to talk
to you.
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Do you remember the conversation
we had a couple of months ago,
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The long one?
Yeah, that one.
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I remember it.
You don't know this, but I was
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getting ready to kill myself
that night and I just wanted to
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call you and say thank you.
The reason I'm alive today is
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because of you and what you've
taught me.
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And I'm not hypothesizing about
that.
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I'm telling you with certainty
that that's what will happen
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because I've seen it so many
times in my life and the people
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that I've helped in their lives
to, as they learn this skill and
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then learn it to use it to help
others.
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And so that's what both books
are.
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That is the theme of both books.
Mike McNamara is on with us
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today.
We're talking about Trauma and
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00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,760
Joy and his other book also,
which we just went in length
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about Colleen Colleen's father.
That's the name of the book
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00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,880
Colleen's father.
No, the name of the book is
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00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,120
Colleen couldn't forget.
That's right, Colleen couldn't,
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00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,800
can't forget.
So you're a trauma counselor.
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And I have to ask you, the man
that that when you had that
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first horrific experience in the
Marines, was it 29 Palms?
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The man, Did you guys stay in
touch?
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00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,680
Did you ever see him again?
What?
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Was oh, yeah, no, he's, he's a
great friend of mine, great
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friend of mine.
And all that I've done, I look
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at him and say you're the one
that pointed me in this
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direction.
And he and he looks at me and he
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00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,000
goes, I didn't do this, you do
it.
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And I said no, without you,
without you, you know, telling
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me that.
And again, at first it's
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shocking when you hear somebody
say you'll never get over it.
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But when I tell people that,
they look at me and then they
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start laughing and I'll say,
what's so funny?
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And they say, you know, I've
never heard anybody say that.
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But as soon as you said it, I
knew it was true.
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How could I ever get over
watching, you know, my wife die
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over the course of a two year
span?
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But that's what I've been trying
to do.
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I think go by going to therapy
and taking these medications
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that somehow or other this is
going to leave me.
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And I'm like, and I look at them
and say, that's not going to
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happen.
Well, that is the you're going
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to learn, right?
You're going to learn to coexist
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though.
Yeah.
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00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800
And and that's one of the
reasons I want to brought you on
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because of the mental health
aspect of this.
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What you said to me makes so
much sense because so much of
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00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,640
what we do, we're fight or
flight.
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00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,440
That's our, that's our human
nature, right?
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00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,400
So when we can't beat something,
our natural instinct is to run.
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00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,080
And this is what the process is,
I think in, in dealing with
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mental health and PTSD.
And you know, I've been a long
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00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,640
proponent of the fact is don't
give somebody pills.
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00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,360
Try to find out, dig deep.
It's sometimes harder because
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you're right.
Once it goes in, you can't
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unthink or unlearn something
that you've seen.
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00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,160
And I think a lot of people
right now and, and they get
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angry, right?
I mean, your experience is the
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00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,240
first, there's like a series of
things that you'll do probably
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like the seven steps of grief,
right?
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00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,120
And the first one is you get
angry and then then you start
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00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,640
negotiating.
And at the end of the day,
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00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,720
you're right.
It's you can't unthink it.
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00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,280
So the only possible thing to do
is to what share it is, is this
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00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,120
what your overall message is?
Is it in the sharing of grief we
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00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,080
can somehow deal with it better?
Well, the first thing is you
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00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,960
have to learn about it.
You have to learn about the
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00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,960
valley of the shadow of death
that you've been shoved in into
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00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,040
that you know that you know that
you're there's going to be days
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00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,840
when you're not going to be able
to shut the video off, right?
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00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,319
You can't mute the audio and
those are tough days.
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00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,920
And that's normal and it's OK.
So you have to learn those kind
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00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,839
of things and then you know, you
have to learn.
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00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:15,119
What do I do?
Do I isolate?
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00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,640
Do I think like I'm OK and numb
myself with, with fitness or
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00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,920
gaming or online shopping or
something?
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00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,280
And that's how that's how most
people do it.
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00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,680
That's what I learned.
Most people will tell you
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00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,680
they're OK.
They'll isolate themselves and
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00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,360
and they numb themselves with
fill in the blank.
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00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,600
Could be work, could be
parenting, it could be gaming
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00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,040
or, or any other thing that you
do to take yourself away from
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00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,600
that, which I don't want to
think of.
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00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,400
So we have to learn to change
our behavior.
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00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,760
And that's really the hard
thing.
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00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,120
But if you'll, if you'll do it
right again, if you'll take care
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00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,400
of your money, so you, you,
because again, life's not done
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00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,080
with you right now.
On to that trauma.
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00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:01,760
Let's slur on alcohol, let's
slur on relationship issues and
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00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,960
let's slur on financial issues.
Pretty soon it's crushing you,
329
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,640
right?
Crushing you.
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00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,560
And I don't know how to deal
with this.
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00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,400
And so that's what the book is
about.
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00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,640
It's a blueprint.
It's not a esoteric discussion
333
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,600
of the philosophy of resilience
or trauma.
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00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,520
It's not that it is.
Do this.
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00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,560
It's Marine stuff, right?
Do this like Marines, the first.
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00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,560
When something goes wrong,
what's the first thing we do?
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00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,440
Let's go get drunk.
That'll help, right?
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00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,800
Wrong.
OK, So a, a therapist would look
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00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,440
at you and say, Jim, I think you
should give a lot of thought to
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00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,880
the way you use alcohol.
I don't say that.
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00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,960
And and I'm, I would call myself
a trauma coach, right?
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00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,640
I have ABA in economics.
So I'm not a mental health
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00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,200
person, but I, I've been a
leader most of my life.
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00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,520
I've, I've LED in the valley of
the shadow of death.
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00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,040
And now that's what I do.
So I look at people and say,
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00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:56,120
hey, stupid, stop drinking, OK?
You want to make everything
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00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:58,440
worse, You want to ruin your
life, you want to drive
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00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,640
everything away from you, stop
drinking.
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00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,720
Do you understand it?
OK, Do you want me to make you
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00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,720
have have you ride it 100 times?
And so it's a very it's more of
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00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,480
a coachable human approach to
this very normal thing.
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00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,000
I.
Want to get time to plug you?
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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,920
We only got about 20 seconds.
Michael Mcnara and his book is
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00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,520
called From Trauma to Joy.
He also has a website which is
355
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,800
all marine radio.
And I think that's important
356
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,360
because I want people to connect
with you.
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00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:28,920
And podcasts are very popular
now, all marine radio.
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00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,160
Find the podcast, you can search
for it.
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00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,920
I want to have you back on
again.
360
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,760
I think your information is
valuable.
361
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,600
And I really appreciate you
taking a few minutes to share
362
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,920
some very intimate details about
your own life.
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00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,520
And I think a lot of people are
touched by that, including me.
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00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,560
So, Mr. McNamara, thank you for
your service to your country and
365
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,440
what you're doing today.
I really appreciate that.
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00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,280
My privilege.
Thank you for having me, Jim.
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,720
Welcome back.
It is America today, Jim
2
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,120
Watkins, and I'm honored to have
on a gentleman who's going to
3
00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:15,120
tell us a little bit about grief
and how to deal with it.
4
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,600
His name is Michael McNamara and
he is the author of a gripping
5
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,400
book called From Trauma to Joy.
Life Changing Lessons that
6
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,800
fellow U.S.
Marines taught me after
7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,800
traumatic events occurred in my
life, lessons that apply to
8
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,560
everyone.
Also, the author of an upcoming
9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,960
children's grief and trauma help
book, Colleen, I can't forget.
10
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,520
So we're introducing you to our
audience.
11
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,560
Tell us about the trauma in your
life.
12
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,480
And then we also want to, of
course, talk about the trauma
13
00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,880
that we've all been witness to
over this weekend in Texas and
14
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,400
how we can process all of this.
Welcome to the program, Mr.
15
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:52,840
McNamara.
Tell us your story.
16
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,280
Well, first of all, thank you
for having me.
17
00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:03,440
And my story is my parents
separate divorce when I'm about
18
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,319
20.
They never speak again.
19
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,600
So they annihilate the family
that I grew up in, the beautiful
20
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,480
little family I grew up in.
I joined the Marine Corps, and
21
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,840
in 1983 and 1993, I'm in charge
of a exercise that I put
22
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,480
together and out in the desert
of 49 Palms, the helicopter
23
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:29,240
crashes near me.
The pilot was decapitated. 3 of
24
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,680
the Marines were fighting for
their lives on the ground.
25
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,800
We tried to save them all and
every one of them died.
26
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,720
And I learned a really important
lesson out of that, that one of
27
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,440
my Marines taught me.
And that was he came up to me as
28
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,440
I was washing blood off my hands
and he asked me.
29
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,040
He said, hey, Sir, he said, how
are you doing?
30
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,280
I said, I don't know, I've been
kind of busy and as we all have.
31
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,600
And I said, I haven't really
thought about that.
32
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,920
And he looked at me and he said,
you know, you're never going to
33
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,640
get over this, right.
And I looked at him and I can't
34
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,560
tell you exactly what I said
because it'd be an inappropriate
35
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,639
for the airwaves, but I said,
I'm pretty sure the therapist
36
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,760
doesn't say that to the patient.
Now, why don't you get away from
37
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,240
me?
And you looked at me and said,
38
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,800
no, Sir, you need to know that.
I said, who told you that?
39
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,320
And he told me Vietnam Marines
have told him that.
40
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,600
He said, you know, I went
through something not nearly as
41
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,360
bad as what happened today.
And that's always helped me.
42
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,240
And and the complete thought was
really important in my life.
43
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,800
One, you don't get over the
things that traumatize you ever.
44
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,000
The best you can do is learn how
to coexist with them.
45
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,600
You know, how could you, right?
How could you?
46
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,320
The next part of that is when
you struggle, that means you're
47
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,400
a normal human being and you
could still live a great life.
48
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,960
OK.
But we have to learn what are
49
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,200
the things I do when these
things come back?
50
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,400
And they will.
And so.
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00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,600
So I learned that from that
incident.
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00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:04,680
Three years later, my sister's
husband murders her kids after
53
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,160
she says she wants a divorce and
she's leaving.
54
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,680
He beats her and then kills
himself.
55
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,360
I go to Iraq and Afghanistan for
three years.
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00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,880
I'm a Marine Corps.
I was a former Marine infantry
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00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,920
officer before I retired, so all
during the heights of the
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00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:21,440
fighting.
So I've seen ugly things.
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00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,680
But the ugliest thing I've ever
seen didn't happen in Iraq or
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00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,720
Afghanistan.
It happened in my hometown of
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00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,560
Sacramento, CA to my sister and
my nephew.
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00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,640
I came home from Afghanistan, I
got divorced something I never
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00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:37,440
thought would happen to me and
then one of my 2 younger sisters
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00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,240
reasons to death that was as a
result of alcohol poisoning in
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00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,480
cold weather.
So I could not get away from
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00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,080
this stuff.
It just kept happening in my
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00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,480
life.
And I started doing a podcast
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00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,960
and I would called all Marine
radio.
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So I talked to Marines and I
wanted to talk about because we
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00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,200
had this horrible suicide
problem and it still impacts the
71
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,040
deal, the Department of Defense
and the military today.
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00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,080
And our combat operations were
going down.
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Our suicide was going up and
none of us understood it.
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And so I would ask the people I
interviewed every on all Marine
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00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,320
radio, we talked to Marine,
right?
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00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,880
So I would ask them, you know
what, what happened when you
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00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,360
came home 2/3 of the way through
every interview.
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00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,520
And the stories they told me
were a variation of the same
79
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,720
thing.
This stuff started when I was a
80
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kid.
I joined the Marine Corps to get
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to a better place and get away
from a bad place.
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So it started when I was a kid.
It continued in my life.
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And you know, then I got
divorced, so I started drinking.
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I never talked about it, right?
And you know, three times had a
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gun in front of me once it was
in my mouth.
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00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,080
And I heard that story over and
over again.
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00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,080
So I began, I thought, you know
what?
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I didn't know any of this stuff.
I need to take the stuff I've
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00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,040
learned that I've heard over and
over again, and I need to teach
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people because I didn't know any
of this stuff, right?
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Nobody taught me this stuff.
And I know how much it's helped
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me.
So I started doing that in 2019.
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And the experiences I had, I
will tell you, if I sat here and
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started telling you those
experiences, we could be here
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00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,160
all day and they would blow you
away.
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00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,480
So I've learned this, this path
from trauma to joy.
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And to any of your listeners, I
don't care what your experience
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is, if it's child abuse, if it's
child sexual abuse, if it's
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watching people you love die,
right?
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Or you know, and I mean the
horrible events of this weekend
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in Texas, right?
I want to tell you there is a
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path for you.
You can walk it.
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It doesn't involve being on
medications for life and going
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to therapy, to life for life.
And it's and it's all anchored
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in the truth.
I don't sell opium.
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I'm not going to tell you time
heals all wounds because it
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doesn't.
I'm not going to tell you
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there's a purpose in this
because there isn't.
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You may give it a purpose, but
in and of itself it doesn't have
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a purpose.
And I'm not going to tell you
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that God doesn't give you more
than you can handle.
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Because when I hear that, I look
at the person who says it and
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say, how would you know?
Were you in the planning meeting
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with God, divvied up trauma and
said, let's give more to
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00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,560
McNamara because he can handle
it.
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And they just look at me.
I said, don't say that, OK?
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And I know you say it because
you don't know what to say to
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people like me.
Don't say that.
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00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,360
Just give them a hug and say I'm
here for you.
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00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,280
So that has been my path to,
into, into what I call the
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valley of the shadow of death.
And that's what generated my
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book from trauma to joy.
The the children's book that I
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wrote was generated because I
had to tell my sons, who are 9
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and six, that their cousins were
murdered and by their uncle.
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00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,440
And I had to tell them that
because normally you would
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shield your kids right from
things like that.
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00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,640
Well, my father was involved in
Major League Baseball, so that
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00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,880
story went out on ESPN and all
their friends were going to
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00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,600
know.
And so as their father, they had
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to hear the truth and they had
to hear they should hear it from
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me.
And so the book is an effort to
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help parents who, like me, could
not shield their kids from some
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traumatic event.
And it takes them down a path
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from on the same path from
trauma to joy.
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00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,680
But the book's called Colleen
Couldn't Forget.
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00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,960
It's about a little girl who
sees something while she's
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00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,040
riding in her car with her
father on the Interstate.
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00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,800
The book doesn't even say what
she sees because it's not really
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important.
But her father notices, She
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00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,160
gets, she gets very quiet.
So he says, Colleen, what's
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wrong?
Is there something wrong?
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00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,960
And she says, well, daddy, you
know the thing we saw?
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00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,120
And he said, yeah, she said, I
can't forget that.
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00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,400
And he looks at her and says,
you know, Colleen, there's
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00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,120
things in my life that I can't
forget either.
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00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,040
And she says, really?
And he says, Yep, same thing
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00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,440
with your mom, your brother and
your sister and your grandma and
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grandpa.
And I want you to go speak to
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everyone of them and ask them
what advice they would give you.
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00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,840
So Colleen goes on this little
journey where they teach her all
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the lessons I teach and from
trauma to joy, but in an age
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appropriate way for children.
The transformational event in
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00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,120
the first book From Trauma to
Joy and then Colleen Can't
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00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:37,559
Forget, is when you see yourself
getting better, you know that
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you're this is a normal human
reaction.
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And So what happens is you feel
yourself becoming stronger
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00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,280
because you understand this
valley of the shadow of death
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that you've been shoved into.
You learn how to live there.
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You learn most importantly, how
to get out of it and how to stay
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00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,000
out of it.
And then what happens is you see
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00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,080
somebody else struggling and you
stick your hand into their
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00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,520
darkness.
And so Colleen goes on this
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00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,960
journey when she comes back and
tells her dad how much she's
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00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,800
learned and how how she knows
there's nothing wrong with her.
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00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,920
And she knows what to do now,
right?
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Instead of isolating, she'll
come talk.
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00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,280
Instead of being alone in a
room, she'll go outside and play
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because she knows her body and
her brain need that.
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00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,120
And so he says, well, I'm not
done with you, though.
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And she says, well, what else do
you want me to do?
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00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,480
And he says, when your friends
get quiet and you notice that, I
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want you to talk to them and I
want you to help them.
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And so the book ends with
calling and helping a little boy
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down the street whose parents
have recently separated.
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Right.
He's very sad and I'm going.
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To ask you to, to hold that only
because we have a hard break.
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Just take a take a breath
because this is so much and it's
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so important what we're doing
here.
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My guest, Mike McNamara will be
back from trauma to joy.
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You're listening to America
TODAY.
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00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:09,880
It's OK.
From trauma to joy, that is the
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name of the book by this man.
His name is Mike McNamara, and
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00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,920
he has a story to tell and he's
here for the reason of the
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00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,240
tragedy and the horror that
we've witnessed this weekend.
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There has to be some solace and
this man has the life experience
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that he's sharing with us.
He's written not only one book,
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but 21 called From Trauma to
Joy, which we talked about, and
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also Colleen Can't Forget, which
is a story that we can all
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relate to because let's face it,
among us, how many have not had
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some kind of tragedy?
But this man breaks all the
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records.
And, and I do want to interrupt
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you, but you were talking about
the conversation between the
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little girl and her father.
So please continue on that if
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you wouldn't mind, Mike.
So the book ends with Colleen
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00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,640
seeing a friend of hers, a
little boy who rides the bus
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with her to school.
He's very quiet and he's sitting
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00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:08,720
by himself on the bus.
And so she goes and sits next to
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00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,680
him and she says, are you OK?
And he says, no.
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I'm really sad.
My my dad left our house and I
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don't know what to do.
Colleen tells him about what
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happened to her.
And she said, I have a notebook
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with a lot of notes in it from
these conversations.
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Would you like to see it?
And he says, yes.
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So they go over to Colleen's
house.
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He copies all the notes, and
they're sitting there and they
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00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,280
talk.
And he looks at her and he says,
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I feel so much better calling.
Thank you so much.
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And so then he leaves.
Colleen is then the bookends
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00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,040
with Colleen having dinner with
your family.
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And there's a knock on the door
and the little boy has come back
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and he brought his little
brother with it.
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00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,960
And everybody stops and Colleen
answers the door.
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And he said, Colleen, could we
go to the park?
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00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,360
And could you talk to my
brother?
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00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:09,200
And Colleen leaves the house.
I'm getting emotional.
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Just tell the story.
She, she leaves the house with
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00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,960
this huge smile on her face and
she makes eye contact with her
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dad.
And then the three of those
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00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:28,120
kids, they head to the park.
And so children go through this,
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00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,320
right?
I mean, my kids did.
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And as parents, we have to be
able to discuss this stuff to
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00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,160
tell them, you know, sadly, as
you just said, this is the
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normal part of life, right?
And it's probably not the last
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hard thing you're going to go
through in life.
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So the question is, what do we
do?
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What do we do with this terrible
thing that's happened to us?
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Is all we do is, is endure it?
Is that all we do?
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00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,000
And there's got to be a better
path than that.
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And that's what the book tries
to outline in terms of, of, of
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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,800
what we can do with something
like this and how we can use it
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to help others.
And and I tell people in in the
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in the book from trauma to joy,
I said, you know, if you do
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that, if you stick your hand in,
if you learn how to do this, and
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00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,000
then you stick your hand starts
into somebody else's darkness
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00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,680
when life has shoved them into
the valley of the shadow of
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00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,480
death.
At some point, you're going to
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get a call that sounds something
like this.
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Hey, man, I just wanted to talk
to you.
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00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,360
Do you remember the conversation
we had a couple of months ago,
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The long one?
Yeah, that one.
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00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,480
I remember it.
You don't know this, but I was
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00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,520
getting ready to kill myself
that night and I just wanted to
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00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,440
call you and say thank you.
The reason I'm alive today is
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because of you and what you've
taught me.
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And I'm not hypothesizing about
that.
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00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,160
I'm telling you with certainty
that that's what will happen
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because I've seen it so many
times in my life and the people
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that I've helped in their lives
to, as they learn this skill and
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then learn it to use it to help
others.
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And so that's what both books
are.
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That is the theme of both books.
Mike McNamara is on with us
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today.
We're talking about Trauma and
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00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,760
Joy and his other book also,
which we just went in length
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00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,520
about Colleen Colleen's father.
That's the name of the book
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00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,880
Colleen's father.
No, the name of the book is
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00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,120
Colleen couldn't forget.
That's right, Colleen couldn't,
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00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,800
can't forget.
So you're a trauma counselor.
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And I have to ask you, the man
that that when you had that
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00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,120
first horrific experience in the
Marines, was it 29 Palms?
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The man, Did you guys stay in
touch?
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00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,680
Did you ever see him again?
What?
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00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,960
Was oh, yeah, no, he's, he's a
great friend of mine, great
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00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,440
friend of mine.
And all that I've done, I look
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at him and say you're the one
that pointed me in this
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direction.
And he and he looks at me and he
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00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,000
goes, I didn't do this, you do
it.
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And I said no, without you,
without you, you know, telling
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me that.
And again, at first it's
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00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,520
shocking when you hear somebody
say you'll never get over it.
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But when I tell people that,
they look at me and then they
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start laughing and I'll say,
what's so funny?
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And they say, you know, I've
never heard anybody say that.
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But as soon as you said it, I
knew it was true.
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How could I ever get over
watching, you know, my wife die
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over the course of a two year
span?
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00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,000
But that's what I've been trying
to do.
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00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,040
I think go by going to therapy
and taking these medications
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that somehow or other this is
going to leave me.
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And I'm like, and I look at them
and say, that's not going to
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happen.
Well, that is the you're going
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00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,720
to learn, right?
You're going to learn to coexist
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though.
Yeah.
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00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800
And and that's one of the
reasons I want to brought you on
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because of the mental health
aspect of this.
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00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,280
What you said to me makes so
much sense because so much of
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00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,640
what we do, we're fight or
flight.
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00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,440
That's our, that's our human
nature, right?
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00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,400
So when we can't beat something,
our natural instinct is to run.
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00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,080
And this is what the process is,
I think in, in dealing with
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00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,880
mental health and PTSD.
And you know, I've been a long
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00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,640
proponent of the fact is don't
give somebody pills.
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00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,360
Try to find out, dig deep.
It's sometimes harder because
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00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,360
you're right.
Once it goes in, you can't
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00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,320
unthink or unlearn something
that you've seen.
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00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,160
And I think a lot of people
right now and, and they get
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angry, right?
I mean, your experience is the
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00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,240
first, there's like a series of
things that you'll do probably
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like the seven steps of grief,
right?
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And the first one is you get
angry and then then you start
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negotiating.
And at the end of the day,
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00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,720
you're right.
It's you can't unthink it.
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So the only possible thing to do
is to what share it is, is this
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what your overall message is?
Is it in the sharing of grief we
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can somehow deal with it better?
Well, the first thing is you
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have to learn about it.
You have to learn about the
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valley of the shadow of death
that you've been shoved in into
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that you know that you know that
you're there's going to be days
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when you're not going to be able
to shut the video off, right?
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You can't mute the audio and
those are tough days.
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And that's normal and it's OK.
So you have to learn those kind
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of things and then you know, you
have to learn.
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What do I do?
Do I isolate?
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Do I think like I'm OK and numb
myself with, with fitness or
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gaming or online shopping or
something?
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And that's how that's how most
people do it.
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That's what I learned.
Most people will tell you
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they're OK.
They'll isolate themselves and
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and they numb themselves with
fill in the blank.
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Could be work, could be
parenting, it could be gaming
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or, or any other thing that you
do to take yourself away from
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that, which I don't want to
think of.
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So we have to learn to change
our behavior.
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And that's really the hard
thing.
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But if you'll, if you'll do it
right again, if you'll take care
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of your money, so you, you,
because again, life's not done
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with you right now.
On to that trauma.
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Let's slur on alcohol, let's
slur on relationship issues and
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let's slur on financial issues.
Pretty soon it's crushing you,
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right?
Crushing you.
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And I don't know how to deal
with this.
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And so that's what the book is
about.
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It's a blueprint.
It's not a esoteric discussion
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of the philosophy of resilience
or trauma.
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It's not that it is.
Do this.
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It's Marine stuff, right?
Do this like Marines, the first.
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When something goes wrong,
what's the first thing we do?
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Let's go get drunk.
That'll help, right?
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Wrong.
OK, So a, a therapist would look
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at you and say, Jim, I think you
should give a lot of thought to
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the way you use alcohol.
I don't say that.
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And and I'm, I would call myself
a trauma coach, right?
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I have ABA in economics.
So I'm not a mental health
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person, but I, I've been a
leader most of my life.
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I've, I've LED in the valley of
the shadow of death.
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And now that's what I do.
So I look at people and say,
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hey, stupid, stop drinking, OK?
You want to make everything
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00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:58,440
worse, You want to ruin your
life, you want to drive
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everything away from you, stop
drinking.
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Do you understand it?
OK, Do you want me to make you
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have have you ride it 100 times?
And so it's a very it's more of
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00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,480
a coachable human approach to
this very normal thing.
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I.
Want to get time to plug you?
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We only got about 20 seconds.
Michael Mcnara and his book is
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called From Trauma to Joy.
He also has a website which is
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all marine radio.
And I think that's important
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00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,360
because I want people to connect
with you.
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00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:28,920
And podcasts are very popular
now, all marine radio.
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00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,160
Find the podcast, you can search
for it.
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00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,920
I want to have you back on
again.
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00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,760
I think your information is
valuable.
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00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,600
And I really appreciate you
taking a few minutes to share
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00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,920
some very intimate details about
your own life.
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00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,520
And I think a lot of people are
touched by that, including me.
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00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,560
So, Mr. McNamara, thank you for
your service to your country and
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00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,440
what you're doing today.
I really appreciate that.
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My privilege.
Thank you for having me, Jim.
